How to win — and lose — Decoder

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. Hello and welcome to Decoder, Nilay’s show about big ideas and other problems. This is Nick Statt, senior producer, and I’m joined by host and very occasional guest, Nilay Patel. Nilay, welcome back to your own show. Hello.

I hate being the guest. Now, you have said that in the past, but there’s also a version of you that says that is the ideal version of this show, where you just get to not do anything and show up and talk about stuff. So I feel like you’re of two minds about what the ideal version of Decoder is.